any sum of cash can buy a top judge it seems. Where does this leave Brennan? European court of human rights?

We know we are slaves to the banks now it is official

So Old Tom has lost.
And you all pinned your hopes on him,one tiny man against the mighty banks.
But why.
You become overdrawn because of whatever reason , your well aware that the bank will charge you for being overdrawn but then bleat when they do charge because you say its too high a charge.
It is, but you knew that before you became overdrawn.

One answer is
Change banks.
I dont agree with bank charges im not made of money , ive been had, but as they say once bitten twice shy.
I made as sure as I could that it wouldnt happen again. It bloody difficult.
With internet banking nowadays theres less of a reason to become overdrawn. you can watch the money dwindle by the hour! But just maybe you can keep 1p in credit ,thats all it needs.
You just have to become a better juggler of your finances. It is hard if your paid monthly but not impossible.
Forgo that dial up pizza,stop living up to the joneses, have your nails done next week,take a packed lunch to work, ride a bike to work,walk,jog,rent out a room in your house,bedsit.Do some overtime, go to the library ,get another hobby other than retail therapy.
So the moral is dont let yourself become overdrawn and then the mighty banks wont 'steal' by stealth your money.
have a nice day!

Keith

i have a very long standing history with my bank and on the couple of occasions i have been overdrawn in the past i have done the same and they have not charged me.

The other day i asked to do the same and explained i would have funds coming in 2 days after an unexpectedly large payment. I was refused permsision to temporairily extend my overdraft, told i woudl have a penalty charge imposed despite me explainging the situation and given a lecture about keeping my account in order.

It seems that the bank has changed their tune and there is no more "mister nice guy" despite me being a customer for 18 years.

Clearly keeping them informed makes no difference anymore!

Its all very well bleating on about renting out a room ( if you have one in the first place) or doing overtime but there are some of us who although we have not gone overdrawn we are against the disgusting profits made by the bank by their made up bank charges. I live in a one bedroom terrace, no chance of renting out a room there, i work for a charity, no pay rise this year, not even a cost of living one! I don't eat out or order pizza, neither do i get my nails done. i cycle to work and take in a packed lunch. However, it is a struggle to make ends meet and if perchance i did go overdrawn i would be financially in a mess if i was charged ruthless bank charges for doing so. The cost of living is hard enough withoutwithout the banks crippling people. ~what is this keep 1p in your account nonsense!!!!!!!!

I agree that charges for unauthorised overdrafts are excessive. However (and I'm no fan of banks or what they do) there is a personal responsibility issue here, that being of communicating with one's bank that outgoing funds might exceed incoming. I bank with the Royal Bank of Scotland and recently I knew that I would exceed an existing overdraft limit and I told RBS in advance that this would happen. I also informed them that sufficient funds would be available to cover this exceptional period a few days later. They honoured my existing DDs etc and although some charges occurred automatically, my branch refunded these within a matter of days. The moral of the story being "keep people informed" - banks hate surprises (much like any of us). The customer has as much a responsibility in managing the relationship as the bank does.

Debbie what are you whinging about you say you havent been overdrawn? lucky girl!
You must be commended on your ability to keep in credit, perhaps you can shed some light to others on your monetary skills.
Keep 1p in credit and the banks wont be able to charge you any excess charges thats my point but you obviously know this you trickster.
I take it you dont own a car, but perhaps you do but doesnt it annoy you when you get a speeding ticket or parking fine for no real good reason other than you did something wrong ie went too fast or parked where you shouldnt.
Same with overdrawing on your or there bank account.And Hey Presto a bank charge.
Do you have insurance?, a pension? then im afraid you will indirectly have shares in some of the big banks whether you like it or not.
Maybe you need to go live on a desert island if you dont want to be crippled by banks.

They are a necessary evil.
cheers

Bank charges are a menace and I for one don't like it and try to carefully monitor my outgoings which doesn't always work out.

The most ridiculous charge I recently had slapped on me was by The Woolwich charging ?35 for a 20p overdrawn amount. The worst was the direct debit was bounced by them because according to them - if it had been paid would have taking my account over by 20p and still saw it fit to charge the ?35!! how can anyone explain the rational behind that? I'm sad Tom's petition did not allow for justice to be served, however well done to him for showing guts. I hope a more sensible and responsible judge will look at the pending high court petition and for once protect the customers..........as it stands we are at the mercy of the banks and at this rate we shall serve them forever.

Well I hope that this is the end of it. I am fed up of having to pay for other peoples inability to look after their own finances.

When you take out an account you are told what the penalty charges are - so if you don't like them or think you will fall foul of the limits then don't take out the account!

I have just yesterday had to pay ?12 for going ?5 over my credit card limit - I am livid, but not with the bank, with myself. I knew there was a limit, I knew there was a penalty charge, and I knew I was sailing close to the wind with the limit this month. I just couldn't be bothered at the end of last week to check how close (would have been one phone call) and because I am mercilessly collecting Tesco points decided to risk one more purchase on the card.

I don't think Tesco should have accepted the payment, I think ?12 is ridiculous as the full balance was paid off today by direct debit as it is every month so it was only overdrawn for 2 days - but it ISN'T TESCOS fault - its mine, only me to blame!!

Billy, I love your pragmatic outlook on life. This still doesn't mitigate the fact that these bank charges are ILLEGAL. The banks are not allowed to PROFIT from charges, only recover costs. In this day and IT age it most certainly does not cost ?30 for a computer to bounce a payment, or for a human to spend 30 seconds looking at an account history to then allow or deny a payment.

The fact that banks show debits before credits is also wrong. I transfer money between my savings accounts and my current account so that I may then draw on the funds. I have been charged in the past for being overdrawn when I've drawn the funds on the same day at the transfer. I have since complained and had charges refunded, without having to go through the full LBA etc process, but if I hadn't said anything I would have been ?30 a time worse off.

These charges do penalise those least in a position to stand it. It should be stopped.

Well I'm a happy bunny because last week the HSBC paid me back ?1,720.
It took quite a while to get it back off the robbin swines and I wasnt going to stop with the claim until 'MY MONEY' was back where it belonged. it 'MY' account.....and yes, I've changed banks

Oh stop bleating all those goody goodies out there you make me so mad....
Hey I didnt agree to the bank charges when i took my account on and how do you get a bank with out bank charges precisely they dont exist!! As a childminder i would like to charge every parent ?5 for every 15 mins they are late but hey that would be unreasonable wouldnt it...
Banks are unreasonable...SO THERE!!!!

The clear fact is that banks are making huge profits from these charges, which are completely disproportionate to the charges they incur. Whether they make us aware of them or not is not relevant. You can tell someone you're abpout to stab them, it doesn't make it fair or legal! We, as customers, have a duty to stand up to them and prevent them from taking our hard earned money in this ridiculous way.

Hear, hear, June you are right. Whether the banks make us aware of the disproportionate charges or not is not relevant.

It's all very well saying "manage your finances better", but some people are in such a tight spot, not due to over spending but because of government over tax, also some people have ended up in a financial predicament due to an ex partner stitching them up and leaving them to hold the baby. Banks have a social responsibility here also. Yes they have to make money, but not at the cost of those already in a dilemma, saying that my bank (Barclays) have just informed me I had gone over my overdraft limit by a few pounds but as I have a good track record they have refunded the ?30 and will do so twice more in a 12 month period.

I think these bank charges are disgusting. It's all very well for those who say "manage your finances better" or "you know the charges", etc, etc. Well, I personally manage my accounts as well as I can. This hasn't stopped the bank charging me ?30 for non-payment of direct debit when another company took a direct debit before it was due. If it was taken at the right time, it would have been there. As it wasn't taken at the right time, it wasn't there. So now, I am being penalised by having to pay money I don't have for someone elses mistake. This also means I am now overdrawn by the banks own fee, no doubt meaning I will be charged yet another ?30. It also meant that it left no money for a bill I did expect to come out, which means another ?30 charge. All stemming from someone else doing wrong. I can't put any extra money into my accounts for the simple reason that I don't have extra money. These charges will mount up and may mean I don't have the money to pay my proper bills and then I'll incur charges from other places all because the bank takes the fees whether you have the money or not. I explained to the bank that the situation was not my fault but they took the ?30 anyway.
So, for those saying basically "it's your own fault if you get charged", why don't you try living on a low income and then having half of it taken off you in charges which aren't your fault?

I do agree that people should be aware of their finances but there are times when it is impossible to do anything about them. I personally spend my money on nothing but bills and groceries and still end up with problems.

I hope something can be done about these charges because ?30 is ridiculous. All of my direct debits are less than ?30 each so if one of them is not paid, how can the bank justify taking out ?30 when I don't have less than that?

It costs a few pence for whatever it is they need to do. These charges affect those who can least afford them. If they didn't exist, my bank account would be in credit.

Billy

I have no Pension and no Insurance, that is why i do not go overdrawn.( I can't afford them) It is a case of monies in against monies out, quite a basic rule to follow. I have in the past gone overdrawn without knowing but had an agreement so i was not penalised for it. The reality when i found out that my bank account was empty was very shocking and i have made every effort not to go there again. My son on the other hand is one of the millions who cannot control his spending and has has many bank charges thrown at him as he was not allowed an overdraft. It is a fact of todays society that we have a generation of spendaholics that cannot handle the high cost of living , i recently used all my savings to bail my son out and have been left in a worse situation than he is, but who is the fool there!

Look it appears that none of us are going to agree wholly on this subject.
The financial savvy say that its up to the individual to keep a reign on their own expenses,whilst those who become overdrawn say the banks are ripping them off.

Yes the charges seem excessive but as I have stated previuosly if the Banks didnt make the money this way they would find another way.
I live in Australia and over here the banks are just the same as UK however they charge an arm and a leg for the customer to withdraw their own money from over the counter,from ATMs etc.
So if the overdraw charges were not 30 pounds plus then you can guarantee that you will pay for it someother way.
Debbie very commendable with the actions for your son but hes a big boy and mummy should cut her apron strings

bank charges are unfair and the banks dont care if you inform them that you will need a temp od for 1or 2 days for an unexpected payment, you will still be charged, (i know i work in a branch). Standard procedure for charge refund requests is to deny the request it will only go further if you take the time to go to the next step (ie take the bank to court) No-one sits and decides if your bills will be paid or not it depends on the type of account you have, at present there is no account that i'm aware of that will allow you not to be charged, as you cant set up s/o or dd's on a savings account. Companies penalise you if you want to pay cash, consumers are caught between a rock and a very sharp cliff face. But this weeek you will all be aware of the bumper half year profits announced by the banks, should the test case be succesful the banks will not be willing to explain to shareholders where the majority of their dividend has disappeared to. Anyone remember the victory ref credit card charges,when late and overlimit fees were forced down to ?12? Has anyone tried to move balances recently, notice the % balance transfer fee?- expect similar things to happen to bank accounts should the case be succesful (which i hope it will), most banks already have at lesat 1 acvcount that you pay for to receive benefits, soon you'll pay for banking with no benefits, sad isnt it? i am looking fror another job by the way!!!!

I am disgusted with the banks, I myself am trying to get charges back from the Halifax, however because my car insurance took an unauthorised payment using my card details, it sent me over drawn they charged me ?30.00, then a debit card payment was due for ?5.99 but because of the car insurance people there wasnt the money there should have been and they charged me another ?30.00, now what do we think the bank said???? Yep you guessed it, nothing we can do, call the insurance company and complain - charges go out, am now ?60.00 over the overdraft limit, more Direct Debits go out as cant afford not to pay them, this month in total ?120.00 in charges and ll because Admiral Insurance took an unauthorised payment....and will they refund the charges i have incurred...NO!!!!

quite similar to wendy ?14.01 in my account
tv license ?15.36 paid
tv license bounces and..
bank charge 1 ?15.00 (bounced direct debit)
account now 99p overdrawn
bank charge 2 ?30.00 (unauthorised overdraft)
postal strike and no post for over a week
bank charge 3 ?30.00 (overdrawn fee charged a week)

this is all because of 99p? yes fair enough i should have been more carefull etc but how can i now be expected to pay ?75.00? thats right ?75 for 99p, thanks barcleys ive only been a customer for 13 years, and 13 years without any problems.

i say good luck with the appeal and lets get the word out there a bit more that the banks are out of order for charging these crazy priced fees, and that more people should claim against such fees.

Been thinking about this Tom Brennan case and everyone out there claiming back their charges shouldnt be worried if they not claiming all kinds of other things he was..at the end of the day myself and others only want back what we paid out all those years...so lets keep those claims rolling no backing off....

I have had these ridiculous overdrafts taken from my acct. by natwest. I received the bill for going ?6.00 overdrawn, paid next day in FULL, got sent another charge one week later for ?30.00 even though i paid immediately and i was told i had to pay this too as i should have checked online and paid before i got the written bill. I also paid that and requested then that my credit card be cancelled after that. I was told to send back the card or send it to the nearest branch of Natwest which i did. I also closed my other accounts with the bank since May. Just today, I was sent a credit card bill for ?363.00 for a car insurance which i had already cancelled with the insurance company. Natwest will expect me to pay that, of course, lest i get slammed with penalty charges even though i no longer have any accounts with these two companies and i have another car insurance at present. To make matters worse, after waiting for 10minutes on the bank's 0870 numberto complain, i was asked to ring back as they could not give me any information because the computers were 'down'. I felt like screaming. It sucks.

Why do we have to have our wages in the banks. I Don,t trust the banks, keep it under the bed it is safer.

I agree that the Banks' collective greed causes many people hardship, and they don't seem to care about customer service or good relationships any more - just profit seems to count.
One could - maybe - accept all this in a greedy, profit-driven business world, but the bottom line is - English law says these charges are unlawful - nobody is supposed to be making a profit out of a loss - the charge should cover the actual loss, not provide billions of pounds' worth of profits for shareholders.
I hope the test case finds against the banks - if it doesn't, you can kiss your money goodbye in future, since the banks will be justified in their greedy ways.

Lets all stop bleating forr a mo and think of Tom. What stage is he at now. As I understood it if he looses he could loose his right to practice as a solicitor. I think were all kidding ourselves if we think that we can ever beat the banks, they have too much power and clout counts. Even the high court will never find in favour of a working class person when it will cost the banks billions. Only one way to stop the banks,change your banking habits. I know its difficult but if everyone paid insurances etc annually there would be a lot less profit for the banks, it would really cut down on the number of direct debits and thus their profits.Suggestion of how to do it, get an interest free credit card,pay everything up front on that and then pay it off. Make sure you never miss a payment and move to another one before that one starts charging interest. Alternatively really look at what you need, this is a throw away society try to opt out and save money. Shop at Llidl or Aldi its cheaper,look at what kind of insurance you need for your vehicle (if its old fully comps a waste), Do you make use of sky or would free view be ok for a bit? Second hand furniture is often better than new and very cheap. The list is endless. If we all lived below our means the banks would be sunk. Sorry if I sound like an old granny,actually I am a grannie, lived like this for years and then lost the plot and the banks got me!!! I know its difficult and I cant do it unless I think very carefully before I spend anything. Please lets all screw the banks together by using them only when we have to !!!

you know, we all make mistakes with our money.
I don't understand why we should be punished for them, and why the banks should profit from them.

The biggest con is charging for bounced dd's. I recently went overdrawn for one day and my bank charged me £28. I asked them why they didn't bounce the dd? They said because that would have cost me £30! - oh how kind.
They refused to reverse the charge inspite of my previous record with them. I sent an email threatening to close my account and they reversed the charge with an apology.
So back to dd's. I have been trying for ages to kick off a campaign against charges for refused dd's. Lets look at the fact's.
1. You are giving a third party access to draw an unspecified amount from your bank account.
2. They can't check if there are sufficient funds to cover the payment.
3. If you check and find you have a shortfall, it will take 3 days to get cleared funds in unless you have a linked account or can get to your branch with cash - and yes that's your branch. Paying cash into another branch of your bank still takes 3 days to clear.

In short, you have to keep a regular eye on your account. You will usually have no idea how much anyone has taken until they have taken it.
The bank in reversing a direct debit has actually given you nothing. The bill is not paid, the third party will probably charge you and the bank has indirectly disclosed the confidential state of your accout to a third party AND had the cheek to charge you for it.

Think about it - until the bank takes its charges - your account is in the same state and has the same balance. The third party is still owed their money. The bank is £30 richer and you are about to become £30 poorer.

Whoever has the authority to do so, has to ban the charges for returned DD's.

Anyone got any idea who can do this or should we start another Number 10 petition?

I have just moved all my accounts from Natwest, just shopping around for a new savings account so I can say good bye to "NatTheft". I had a major problem with depressiona nd house isues etc, so had large debt ,uckily my parents helped me clear this when I moved home, now I was ok for 3 or 4 months while I was getting used to budgeting again etc and trying to save, I reduced my over draft to around £400 after around 3 months of me being in credit I had a letter sent saying my overdraft was increased to £1600. When I only earn around £1100 this seems excessive. Especially when you think of all the problems with teh same bank I had with overdraft unpaid credit cards etc, if I looked into everything i could attempt a massive reclaim, im not going to as it was my fault, im far more stisfied removing my accounts and I have also told my friends to do teh same.
Only way we can sort this is to keep away from the worst offenders.