Data loss fraud; who should pay up?

by Money Doctor Monday 26 November, 2007

Last week we asked you who should take the blame for the ridiculous HMRC data loss stuff up...

...and at the moment it's clear that most of you think that good old Gordon Brown himself should be the one to take the can over the whole sorry episode (although Steve McClaren and aliens were popular choces too!)

But perhaps a bigger question to ask is who should pay back the cost of any fraud?

That question seems to be the reason for the argument that is currently going on between the Government and the banks after the loss of 25 million child benefit records.

Both the Chancellor Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown have told MPs that the banks will repay customers who lose any money. But in a letter the banks have told the Chancellor that he should reimburse them for any costs incurred.

The letter is signed by the British Bankers' Association, the Building Societies Association and the Payment Service APACS, which handles the security of money transfers.

The letter has warned Alistair Darling that they will refund their customers to start with, but if there is widespread theft due to the blunder by HMRC, the banks will expect the Government to reimburse them.

Sandra Quinn of APACS commented on their stance:

"Under the Banking Code we protect customers. And customers need to know that they have one point of contact if they're concerned and that is their bank or building society.
"But there is a separate issue about long-term liability. And if there is evidence that the loss of this data does lead to widespread fraud we will want to pick this up with the Chancellor and the Revenue. They won't be surprised by that."
She also stated that the banks did not hear about the data loss until Friday 16 November, more than four weeks after the disc was sent and more than three weeks after a senior Revenue official became aware of the loss!

"We'd have liked to have known earlier because the earlier we knew the sooner we could take steps," she said.

Yes, that would have helped wouldn't it?

And, despite assurances by Alistair Darling that all the 7.3 million bank accounts affected would be "flagged" so they could be monitored for "irregular activity", Sandra Quinn said in no way could that be guaranteed.

She said every bank and building society had been told which of their accounts was affected and would sample accounts to monitor activity for any signs of fraud. But she added that individuals should also check their bank statements carefully themselves.

So, the question isn't just who to blame, but, if fraud does happen, who should pay up?

Why not let us know in the comments?

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Comments

Elizabeth Walton says:

Tuesday 27 November, 2007 / 12:11

I feel that Gordon Brown is making a complete mess of things .labour wont get in again as hes done to much damage I think he should stand down and allow David Camaron to run the country he could do a better job Get out Gordon let a proper man do the job

Andrew says:

Tuesday 27 November, 2007 / 13:11

Who should pay for the result of misuse of the lost data? Silly question. You and I will pay for it!

I understood that if you could should loss through the negligence of another party you had a right of action against them for that failure. QED there is a right of action against HMR&C. But you and I pay for that.

Regardless of politics I feel that a lot of the problems are caused by state organisations attempting to take on board the "commercial way" without embracing it fully. They act at times like glorious amateurs making valiant attempts.

Cut backs are not to blame. More money is not the cure. Deeper professionalism is the answer not money.

I appreciate that the Civil Service believe they work hard for poor money and are generally unloved. Funny thing is that is people in industry feel exactly the same so that can't be the root cause.

How will firing the Prime Minister ( and I'm no fan) stop a relatively junior person in a ministry screwing up? Mind you no harm in having some political fun making him squirm, I guess.

Bob says:

Tuesday 27 November, 2007 / 14:11

As a programmer I cannot understand why the data could neither be parsed or transfered over a secure line. It was only a couple of thousand meg and a mere database at that!

In programming terms writing a quick parse program would have cost less than the wages in time spent on top civil servants debating the issue. Less than any one of their 'expenses' bill.

It seems to me that those at the top do not have the necessary technology skills to make informed decisions and apparently do not have competant programmers working for them.

Had a commercial company done this, legal actions would now be being taken against them and their directors. Resignation should not be sufficient to escape prison. Responsibility should come with the wages.

Who should pay is a moot point. We, the public however will pay, with our taxes.

viky says:

Tuesday 27 November, 2007 / 19:11

what they did, not just by losing the disk, but by giving out confidential information out that was covered by the data protection act was illegal and every person effected by the loss of the disk is entitled to sue! can you imagine every person who received child benefit suing?! they had no right to send the infomation anyway especially without the consent of the people who's personal and confidential info was on the disk. major major cock up. will the inland rev every learn?

Russell Williams says:

Tuesday 27 November, 2007 / 20:11

How much longer are we as a nation going to tolerate the utterly mind boggling incompetence of this government? Will someone please wake me up, I am living in a Labour nightmare.... And its costing me a fortune!

Barth. Nkwocha says:

Wednesday 28 November, 2007 / 11:11

This is not some of the thrid world where accountability is nil and frauds are swept under the capet. Good a thing it was found at least, are we saying that we are not capable to know when and how it happened with recent technologies or what to do to know who did it. This fraud is not a mistake but a planned action against the nation.(A mistake can lead to fraud) whichever, justic must be done.

marktristan says:

Wednesday 28 November, 2007 / 12:11

I understand the desire to find a scapegoat but how on earth is this incident Gordon Brown's fault?

The person who took the decision that bank records and other sensitive data would not be stripped out of the database but sent in the mail along with the children's names and NI numbers -- that is the person with the biggest culpability.

What about the role of TNT (not sure whether their mail service or couriers) in this? They are culpable too.

Because we don't know these people's names and because HMRC is part of the public services, people rush to pin the blame straight on the PM.

I'm not defending the government but I do think this tendency of passing blame to the top figure is absurd. It's like blaming the chief exec of British Airways when the air stewardess spills coffee in your lap.

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