OFT to compromise on bank penalty charges?

by Money Doctor Thursday 13 September, 2007

It is rumoured that the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) could drop next year's High Court test case over bank overdraft charges!

But before you all get worked up over this, the OFT said they would only do this if the major banks offered to cut their penalty charges enough, so it would be in the best interests of consumers to drop the whole case.

The High Court is likely to decide to make a decision in early 2008 in which they should sort out whether the OFT has the power to rule that bank overdraft fees are unfair.

The eight major banks challenging the OFT say it has no jurisdiction in this matter but perhaps that is because they fear the effect of the ruling going against them?

On Monday, Lloyds TSB became the first of the big High Street banks to its overdraft fees, after paying out millions of pounds in penalty charge refunds.

It seems likely that many other banks will follow Lloyds example in the months ahead, perhaps in the vain attempt to deflect the OFT from its legal action?

But a senior OFT official, made it clear that the OFT was open to negotiation on the issue: "If we do our own financial analysis, and they [the banks] come in with a number that is lower than our analysis would suggest is an unfair charge, there is no need for the court case to go forward. We will be looking out for what is the best outcome for the consumer."

However the OFT denied that there been face-to-face negotiation with the banks over the whole issue.

The biggest thing to note is that if and when the case goes ahead (which is not certain) the judge will not be asked to rule on whether bank charges are legal or fair!

Instead he will decide whether the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations apply to the banks.

In all of this the OFT believes typical bank overdraft fees come under these regulations, that they are unfair and so it has the power to order changes. But banks have responded by saying that their charges are a key feature of their current account business and so are not covered by the regulations, they are fair and that the OFT has no say in all of this!

It has also been revealed that the OFT actually agrees with part of the banks' arguments!

They claim that their charges are not penalties, but are fees for a service; for running a current account while it is in the red.

(However the OFT still believes the levels of charges are unfair, even if they are "fees for a service")

At present the banks are giving the OFT their own estimates of how much it costs to run an account in the red and to bounce cheques. The OFT is also due to work out its own figures so they can establish what level of charges are appropriate and fair to bank customers.

The OFT has denied that the High Court test case could lead to the reintroduction of monthly or annual account charges; the end of so-called "free banking" for those of us whose accounts stay in credit.

The OFT did state that in contrast to the fees earned from charging for overdrafts, a standard charge of £300 a year, applied to the UK's 75 million current accounts, would generate an extra £20 billion or more in income for the banks; more than enough to cover what they have paid out in penalty charges!

So, is it right that the OFT tries to reach a compromise with the banks over this?

Or would it be better for all of us if the High Court test case went ahead, no matter how long it takes to reach a decision?

Petition Gordon Brown about bank charges!

Categories for this post: Banking

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Comments

Allison Primus says:

Friday 14 September, 2007 / 14:09

We are a nation trying to get out of debt and banks are putting as further in. I had an item go out which took me over my overdraft, they paid it and then charged me ?30 for the privilege of it!!!
Stop the charges let us live!!!

Claire Siddall says:

Friday 14 September, 2007 / 18:09

After the tax man has had me on emergency tax for over 9 months and i am still on emergency tax i have gone into the red. I have a little one and struggle to make ends meet as it is. I work hard for the NHS and am working towards a diploma. I now face the fact that i may have to have an IVA. Working all week for ?130 when i should clear at least ?200. I am at my wits end and feel i am worth more dead than alive. All i get is letters and nasty phonecalls which make me feel like someone who doesnt want to pay. Currently i am kind of robbing peter to pay paul. Over the past 4 years my bank charges are approximately ?2000 Wouldn't this be better in my pocket to feed the mouth of my little one. I dont know how to get out of this mess. Soon as i get clear another bank charge hits me.

MARIA says:

Friday 14 September, 2007 / 23:09

I checked my credit rating recently and found that Barclays Bank have ruined any chance of getting any credit.
Their extortonate charges put me nearly ?900 overdrawn last year, and I couldn't clear it until I sold my house at christmas,
Barclays have refunded all my charges but refuse to remove this rating from my file as the charges were refunded as an 'act of goodwill'
THANKS A LOT BARCLAYS

paul says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 09:09

dear sirs, have we all missed the point about this ongoing farce of penalty/service charges!, i seem to recall that the OFT was accused of having no teeth or the will to use them even when there is a obvious need. if we are to accept they are the only real guardians of the publics interests then we should all start to really worry now.
in my opinion the banks should charge a small but qaulified amount to operate customers accounts and should drop all other charges as is obvious they would amke as much or more than they do now, further they should be ordered to automaticly review and refund all previous charges on everyones accounts thereby creating the fresh honest start that is so much needed, my message Wake up smeel the coffee and do something real and decent!!!!!!!!!!!

Russell says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 10:09

I have just gone into the red with First Direct due to the setting up of separate accounts for my wife and me. Her new bank dragged its heels over a simple PIN request and as a consequence first direct hit me with an excess overdraft punishment of SEVENTY FIVE POUNDS!! Would someone at the OFT please explain how the hell this is reasonable and why this is still happening while the banks have been given leave to stop refunding these punitive charges until only God knows when. I suspect that a cosy deal will be brokered between the two which will ensure that the banks still rake in billions in misery money and the OFT look like they tried to do something about it. We are just pawns to these people and our individual opinions simply do not matter to either of them. Am I the only one who can see that as so much money has been identified as having been stolen from us, repaying it will badly hurt the banks now and forevermore, a little bit like having to pay a huge amount out of their account in charges, then finding it hard to ever catch up again - sound familiar? I have lived in the same 3-bed terraced house for over 20 years and still owe nearly a quarter of a million pounds for it! I will never own it, it belongs to the lender. Having raised two sons into adulthood and helped them with a joint house purchase to get them started - even though they earn over ?50K between them, I know I will die in debt - and I'm only 42. Screw the banks, just like they have always screwed us. Incidentally, I hear that savings accounts are now paying up to 7%. Averaging the amount going through my account in the last year, the bank will have already made a minimum ?2,700 out of our money, even if they were only lending it out at that piffling rate?

Paul Barquinha says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 10:09

I am totally fed up of these unlawful, unfair and irrelevant bank charges. I had sufficient funds to pay the court fees of ?120 for both myself and my wife totalling ?240. This shows on my statement that the funds cleared, but just because I had a couple of direct debits due and went over a couple of pounds, Abbey charged me ?30 for clearing Visa on each of the ?120 plus charged ?30 for clearing one DD and the other was returned and charged ?35 plus charges for going overdrawn plus other charges for cheques that were cleared within funds, but due to the DD's that went a couple of pounds over was charged too.
In total for this month I'm to be charged ?250, how do you justify this? And again, when they take the charges without my consent, charges will be added for the next month, a very vicious circle. How can the people of Britain, clear loans, mortgages and credit cards when banks are being extortionate with their charges, but they advertise 'The banks are our friends!' How contradictive is that?
I'm trying my hardest to stay out of debt, yet due to these outrageous charges, I'm having difficulties paying my mortgage.

Russell says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 10:09

... Can anyone tell me why the 'Pound' sign does not work on what is after all, a financial website???

Susie says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 11:09

I recently tackled Abbey over their charges and won, well kind of... Late last year Lloyds TSB persuaded my husband to change our account, offering free banking for a limited period - fine because we don't usually go over. They were to swap all the DD's and SO's over. At the same time hubbie also moved electricity/gas/phone to other providers, silly man, but in all this muddle our Abbey account went overdrawn because we put our money into Lloyds TSB and they hadn't cancelled the Abbey payments. We banked online with Abbey and didn't check Abbey account as we were no longer using it - presumed we still had a few quid. When we finally did we'd got a string of charges )?200+), the usual ?20 charge plus ?35 for bouncing it so we rang Abbey to find out the exact figure to bring the account back to ?0 and transferred this amount from another Abbey. Wrong! We'd contacted Lloyds too to sort out what had gone wrong from their end and get refund from them. In the following months Abbey added further overdraft charges and interest. We ignored the account as we knew we weren't using it. However, I decided to use the account on one occasion for a specific reason putting cash in to cover my purchase but then found that my transaction hadn't gone through. I got a print out and was horrified to find further charges since our ?0 balance episode so I decided I'd had enough and wrote to Abbey. I got an acknowledgement and then four weeks they replied in full but I'd begun to think that they weren't going to tackle the problem because of the bank charges issue going to OFT next year. But they said that because it was their fault we'd gone overdrawn, because their rep had told us the incorrect figure to bring the account up to date, they had recaluclated our account. To double check I recalculated and agreed all but ?5, so I accepted their apology and wrote to thank them (not often they get letters of thanks) even though my last transaction had been a pain. They might have admitted their error but it doesn't help that my payment bounced or that had I not written to them they would not have sorted it out themselves! Moral of story is to never presume anything - do it or check it yourself.

Brian says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 11:09

Its about time the public behaved more like adults - going overdrawn without an overdraft in is effect theft of the banks money - bear in mind many do this with there guarentee cards - if you know you have no money - why use you bank account. You won't steal clothes from a Dept store but its ok to take and use money thats not your own and the moan when the bank has to write you a letter or try to call you and the bank has to borrow money to cover your debt - the answer is to be responsible, stop taking whats not yours and stop moaning when you are asked to pay for stealing -

Russell says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 11:09

...One other small point worth a mention I feel, if the banks consider themselves all powerful and continue to patronise us all while explaining how little we understand the 'bigger picture', they need to take a long hard look at the sharks currently circling Northern Rock and its management - don't you just love people power and how quickly a big company's share price can leave a small crater when it hits the ground so hard and fast. I suspect some very fat cats are about to be placed on a painful fitness regime.

Russell says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 12:09

Theft? Stealing? Section 1 of the Theft Act 1968 defines theft as:

'The dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it.' I feel that the points to prove this offence are more than satisfied by the bank's activities Brian. Incidentally, the legislation defines 'appropriation' as follows:

'Any assumption by a person of the rights of an owner amounts to an appropriation,
and this includes, where he has come by the property (innocently or not) without stealing it,
any later assumption of a right to it by keeping or dealing with it as owner.

In my opinion, and in accordance with this legislation, our cash has been stolen and even if they thought it was OK at the time (still theft), now that they know that it was not, by keeping it they satisfy the definition anyway.

Customers do not satisfy the definition because they have no intention of 'permanently depriving' the banks of their money and as overdrafts are a facility made available by the banks, the 'appropriation' cannot be unlawful.

Try not to make too big a crater as your argument lands Brian.

Chris says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 17:09

I have been a customer of Barclays for over 20 yrs have had 5 loans, all paid off before the time due and never any problems with overdraft charges UNTILL I applied for my bank charges back since then they have moved money from one account to another without my permission ensuring that I then got clobbered with charges, they have taken money out of a savings account in my name after asking my wife for permission (Its my account not hers), and attempted to hit me with charges left right and centre. Next month I will be back in the black no thanks to these crooks and as soon as I am sorted they can take their accounts and shove them where the sun doe'nt shine. AND I STILL WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK, I would have been prepared to settle. Now I want every single penny plus interest and every week that I do not get it I will send a witnessed letter for which I will charge ?35

ADAM THE DEBT MAN says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 18:09

Hey all i would like to address the comments left buy Brian. Bri you dont mind me calling you that i hope. I am a young man with a young family not really to sure how old you are but anyways. How do you figure going overdrawn without an overdraft is stealing when half the banks in question allow people to go overdrawn to then charge them for the faclilty in my case HSBC charge 125 for an unauthorised overdraft this is fair you think you miss a payment they hit you again. The banks are the scum in this case. They live and make millions off us using peoples money to make money for themsleves and paying you a tiny cut in the form of interest. You should look into how much each bank declared in profits last year then see if your still under the same opinion. I like your comment about the department store taking clothes without paying. Would you allow me to use your money to gamble at a casino with no guarentee i would win no you wouldnt.Will thats exactly what banks do every day then if they lose they add insult to injury buy puttin there interest rates up and forcing people futhurer into debt and allow people to borrow more money until it all goes pete tong as has recently happended in the States. Banks in my eyes are there to provide a service to the public noone minds people making money but you have to give something back look into your subject before you post messages on a web site which is designed to help people get out of debt and get the best deal hippocrit

susan says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 21:09

what the hell is brian (sept 15th) on about stealing money from the bank they have been steaking our money for years.

susan says:

Saturday 15 September, 2007 / 22:09

sorry

I mean stealing. i was so angry at brian i didnt check my spelling

Douig says:

Monday 17 September, 2007 / 14:09

I feel those who have been the victims of these unfair charges need to get together as one unit and when the time is right, withdraw our money on the same day, and re-deposit it in the first bank to agree, not to impose such charges or similar charges in the future.

Together we stand divided we fall!!

neil says:

Thursday 20 September, 2007 / 17:09

Those in power are to blame they could have easly stop banks and credit companys lending to people that would find it difficult to pay back but there was to much money to be made .The more debt your in the harder you have to work the more crap you are willing to accept poor pay and working conditions.I spoke to my labour MP 22 years ago to complain how these companys where being irresponsible in the way they were lending money to people who found it hard to pay back. now 22 years on things are even worse when you can have an item for 2 or 3 years before you have to pay anytihng back by then you need a new item.People struggle for years trying to get back into the black but these banks and goverment do not want that it is about time this happened and these instution were called to account for there actions
on the other hand people have to relaise they are not your friend but a way of keeping you down and struggling to get by. Would lend a stranger or allow some one to take you money not knowing if they could pay it back.Years ago the cash machine and banks would not allow you to have any money if your account was empty. this could easly be done today and some people already have restrictions on there accounts just ask the bank to make sure you cannot withdraw money you do not have. it will help in the long run.

gerry says:

Wednesday 26 September, 2007 / 10:09

i think its not fair that the banks have applied a stay with the courts and have been granted while we are still getting charged every day for going overdrawn. i think we should all apply for a stay on bank charges until the courts decide who is right or wrong.

Chris says:

Tuesday 16 October, 2007 / 15:10

I hate banks, i think the charges they impose are extreme. If it was possible to live without my bank i would happily do so. May be a feature here somewhere. My brother got his refund of charges and i submitted at the same time and i have to wait - how does that work???? further to this i got all my statements from the last 6 years for free (no £10 charge) and watched in horror as the charges went up from £15 to £35 over the short time... thats out of order.

RON FERRIS says:

Wednesday 17 October, 2007 / 01:10

If the banks asked the OFT for a stay while the court case was going on why the hell cant we get one?
Im being charged every month on a vicious circle brought on by being sick for a couple of weeks.
Ive asked my bank for help with these charges and they just use this stay to fob me off.
ABBEY is my bank and thet are a dissgrace.
I hope we win and more vulture carcase picking banks go out of business.
Once we get justice and i beleive we will, but not all our money back. I for one will never deal with a bank again. Im off to France to live once i get my house sold. Robbing Bas****s!!!!!

Richard says:

Friday 26 October, 2007 / 22:10

Congrats Ron,
Move to France and go overdrawn. Being overdrawn in France is not just considered a criminal offence as it is in this country, there they act on it!
Police at the door and charges filed, whatever the amount.
Being overdrawn without permission is robbery! whether you intend to give it back or not. Just the same as if I steal your tele or video. Are the good people of this board whom have questioned Brian earlier trying to tell us that the police would take no action if I said I was going to give it back. I think not. When the people here quote Acts, quote the whole act!

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